Curse

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 09, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Found it here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

While I can't tell you much, I can tell you that Nightfall has a larger PvE experience than factions. This is due both to simple quantity (20 story missions, larger map etc) but also, I believe, in quality; things like more interactive environments (traps), the hero system etc will help enhance you experience while playing through the story.

I can't take credit for this, of course, but I'd like to think that ANet has "seen the error of its ways" in succeeding at making Factions a short game and have reversed course to provide more content in Nightfall.

I've also seen comments about Nightfall having a larger map than Factions, so I'm hopeful

gamecube187 · Sep 10, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I'm going with what the other guy said. There's so much hate on factions because the people who love it aren't bothering with these forums, they're playing it. This makes all the hate posts look like the opinion of the entire community. This very same thing happened on the forums when Prophecies first came out and it will happen when Ch3 comes out. And people like you will make posts like this about Ch3 being crap because of all the hate and finding 'reason' to it.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I prefer that Factions is short and sweet as opposed to Prophecies long and drawn out.

QFT...i don't think I can say it better myself...in prophecies, it seemed like there was never a "main" storyline, but instead a lot of little ones put together, and you only end up seeing the end of one.....WHAT HAPPENED TO ASCALON?!

Oh and like MaD BaRoN HahA said about the "guild wars" and "alliance wars", I'm in a 4 person(my real life friends that play gw.....if only I could get my WoW playing friends to play Gw..

) guild that only pve's. Does that mean it should be called "pve wars" for me? I still see guilds....and aren't ten of those what alliances made of? Maybe instead of "alliance wars", it should be called "super guild wars", or better yet, "Guild Wars"....wait a minute....

Sry, but your reasoning to "alliance wars" doesn't make sence to me.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Oh that's right, it's FUN. Never would have thought of that, I know I wouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salaboB

And Factions isn't, it's relying on Prophecies' popularity to carry it through. What's your point?

Not IMO. Factions is 10 times better than prophecies, fun-wise for me. There just seems to be so much more to do in factions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

I like Factions. Factions is different from Prophecies, if it was made same format with prophecies, that's boring - some more running and excessive farming, just different terrain and mobs.

And now I suddenly remeber why I like factions so much more.....no anoying running making it incredibly hard to get groups for a certain missions, or people not going farther just cuz they want to farm....wait, isnt farming considered grinding? Which is one of the reasons why factions supposedly sucked occording to the op....grind...even though there seems to be a lot less in factions...

meh....reading just about the same thing over and over in different ways is getting sorta tireing..and its only the 3 page...I guess I'll just make a general statement to reply to all the posts I would have replied to had I read this all

You can't please everyone all the time....most of you on this thread are the people not pleased. There were unpleased people with prophecies, and I'm sure there will be for nightfall and the other chapters too. I'm sorry that you are displeased, but you don't have to say things like factions was a unfinished game....

Oh, and Sekkira, if you are still trying to convince them that factions isn't as bad as you say, then maybe you should stop. It's obvious just by how much they missed most of you're points that they probably won't understand...BTW, how did you come up with such good things, like the metroid ones? I wish I could come up with stuff like that!

Alfrond · Sep 10, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Like gamecube, I really enjoyed Factions. It had its good points and its bad points, but overall I found it to be a fun, challenging, and rewarding game. I feel that I got my money worth and then some.

I realize that a fair number of people didn't really like Factions a whole lot, but really its gonna come down to personal opinion. Each GW game is gonna be a little different from the other ones and everyone is gonna have their personal favorites.

arcanemacabre · Sep 10, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

TBH, I did like Factions, at first. Scratch that, I loved Factions. A part of me still likes it a little. But there's one major thing it lacks that I think Prophecies didn't, and that's replayability.

Now this is just my opinion, so take it as you will.

I played both games with my main characters as they were meant to be played, of course. Fighting through every little thing, exploring every inch of space, completing every quest and every mission I could find. It's really fun the first time around for both games.

However, the second time through Prophecies, you have the freedom of skipping those missions you didn't like. The only missions you really need to do are the Crystal Desert missions & Sanctum Cay for Ascension, and ThK to head to the Fire Islands. The rest is completely free reign. That freedom of exlporation offers replayability.

In Factions, well I think we all know what's up with that. We're not only forced to do more missions and certain quests to move on, but the missions themselves are generally dreadful. I don't like being forced into Cooperative play if I don't feel like it. For that reason alone, I have 3 characters being blocked by Vizunah Square.

Not to mention the Bonus reward based on time. If you already dread a mission, and feel trapped because you have no choice but to do the mission, you don't want to do it more than once. So you feel rushed just to get as high of a bonus as you can the first time through, so you never have to come back.

Keep in mind, my opinion.

I have been taking a decent break from GW for about two weeks now. The reason, I feel, is that Factions simply took a lot out of me. I just felt too rushed, dreaded too many missions (like Vizunah and Gayala), and the moment that it felt like I had to work, well that was it for me. As I've said repeatedly on these forums, I am here to play, not work.

Kool Pajamas · Sep 10, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

There is only one thing about prophecies I like better than factions and thats the choices for missions. In Prophecies you are able to skip some missions if you choose. You cant do that in factions. In prophecies you could do any of the desert missions in any order, that was cool. I'd like to see that in future chapters. Other than that, factions is way better.

Kook~NBK~ · Sep 10, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I've played 5 characters all the way through Prophecies, and I had fun each and every time. I didn't mind if someone wanted to watch the cut scene, even if I'd seen it a couple of times before. I go back from time to time to do missions there just for the fun of it. Even though the story line was more of a series of short stories, there was continuity to it and had some interesting points. I was glad to finish the PvE game for the accomplishment of it, even though the transport back to Droks was a let-down.

With Factions, I took my Mesmer through the story-line and didn't have nearly the fun I did with Prophecies. By the time I got to Visnuah Square, I was thinking "Can we just get this over with?" I hated being in the city, not only because of the way it's laid out, but for the incredible lag issues that come up when getting into a fight with the baddies. And then, you get out of the city only ot discover that you get bogged down by having to get 10,000 faction points before you can go on to the next mission(s)! I got no feeling of accomplishment when my party finished that last mission, only relief that I was done with it. I won't take another character through because I didn't enjoy it the first time. Because it sucked so bad, I'm kinda glad that it wasn't as big/long as Prophecies!

I do enjoy the AB's...once you actually get into the fight!

EPO Bot · Sep 10, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Both games have their merits and flaws.

Merits of Factions:A huge population is cramped into a multi layered city because 60% of the continent is now barren and only inhabitable by the most hearty tribes. Every area has lots of things to do.Secret armor crafters. Alliance battles. Elite missions. Chicks dig the bald boy. Twin skills for extra strategies.No pro running.

Flaws of factions:Easy to finish fast. Almost non-existent story. Movies get totally messed up with hostile minions or bound heroes.No pro running.

Merits of Profecies: Sweet and sad intro. Huge lovely world. Kilroy Stonekin. Perdition rock.Gwen. Using Droks armor and SS to smash nubs and feel 1337.Tomb of primeval kings.Many remote outposts with unique skilltrainers.

Flaws of Profecies: You could cut out Maguma completeley and most players wouldn't even notice.Tutorial seems to go on until you reach Lions arch. Only temporary equipment before reaching Droks. "Pro runner going to Droks for 3K". Few cash rewards.

As you can see, one could praise or burn both chapters at will with very good arguments.

TheLordOfBlah · Sep 10, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

You said "OMG theyre trying to convince us that factions is longer!"

Think about it: Factions is smaller, but it has more content packed into it. Factions has about 230 quests while proph has about 200. Most people just bypass the quests because theyre L20 thru half of them.

"QFT...i don't think I can say it better myself...in prophecies, it seemed like there was never a "main" storyline, but instead a lot of little ones put together, and you only end up seeing the end of one.....WHAT HAPPENED TO ASCALON?!"

A little is revealed in the titan quests about ascalon. They dont need to give out every detail of the storyline because some of the mysteries of the game are what makes it interesting.

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 10, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

You said "OMG theyre trying to convince us that factions is longer!"

Think about it: Factions is smaller, but it has more content packed into it. Factions has about 230 quests while proph has about 200. Most people just bypass the quests because theyre L20 thru half of them.

That was the original post. Did you read anything beyond it?

There may be more quests in Factions just as there are more skill points to be obtained from missions, but they're crammed into the same small Factions space. How many are FedEx city quests? How many are faction farming repeat ad nauseam quests?

Anyway, by this point I've taken all 4 of my "active duty" characters - Tyrian E/Mo, N/Me and R/W, and Canthan A/Rt - all the way through the Factions storyline. I've completed every quest and walked every zone with my main, and I have to say that I still find more flaws in Factions than I find good points. Even the "mission areas as explorables" concept that I loved seems to be just a way to squeeze in more bosses into the same space as there are more elite skills in Factions than in Prophecies and the bosses have to spawn somewhere. Why is it that only Gyala Hatchery explorable has an engaging quest start in it? I love the dynamic NPCs in Tahnnakai Temple explorable that react to your progress through the storyline with specific hints, but why is it that the only quest in that zone - the only quest starting in any mission explorable except for Gyala - is another FedEx wonder that you can only obtain by fighting through countless mobs?

As I've already said, there are things about Factions I like. Whoever designed the Jade Sea and the Luxon side deserves to have more input in Chapter 4. It's just that I feel Factions could have been a much more engaging game if it hadn't been designed to be so short.

Horseman Of War · Sep 10, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Ill start off by saying that I do not use PvP toons, and even if I had a year to unlock all the Factions skills for my (non-assassin non-ritualist) characters it would still take me a year. I am just now starting to take my rit and ass to Tyria to unlock more skills for them (recently finished Factions - GREAT ENDING ANET! MORE REWARDING THAN HELLS PRECIPICE FOR SURE!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

They're trying to convince us Factions is as long as Prophecies. It's not.

They didnt make that claim. Your little tirade about the PvP- well, the whole game was altered to reduce the 'pve grind' that people like you complained about on the original.

It IS a stand alone game- how is it not???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Don't believe me? Here are my arguments.

::sigh:: This should be good....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

1) Factions "pre-Searing" ends when you reach Seitung Harbor.

pre searing ends when you get your insignia and are allowed to leave the monastary. If you want to call it pre-searing (um.. different story holmes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Where are the distances that a player in Prophecies needs to cover on the way from one mission to the next? They're hidden in the nastiest places - the places your character has already traveled and now needs to walk
And what is the ultimate goal of all this rushed advancement and convoluted trudging through the identical cityscapes that make it impossible to determine where you're going? What is the payoff for the countless hours spent just to inch closer through the storyline?

You sound like someone complaining that you cant get a 'droks run' in factions. It also sounds like you cant get past Naphui Quarter...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

This does nothing to actually lengthen the game, and only provides the illusion that Factions has as long a "play life" as Prophecies.

You realize that you can participate in Alliance Battles with a PVP character, right? Please tell me you knew that, because the ABs have nothing to do with the pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

I love, I hate, to me

^this is all im seeing, sorry can you repeat it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Instead of the "user friendly" vibe of Guild Wars what I'm getting from Factions is the "faster, grindmaster" feeling, and that deeply concerns me.

thats a cute way to say it, but it makes no sense. Faster and Grind should not be in the same sentance, Boy Wonder.

**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

But if you visit the Maps section on this very site, you'll see the map of Tyria clocks in at an impressive 7131KB, while Cantha lags far behind at 2565KB.

OMG LOL LOL YOU CANT BE SERIOUS!>!? HOW CAN I READ ANY MORE OF THIS POST WITHOUT THINKING YOU HAVE LESS THAN TWO BRAIN CELLS??

TRY COMPARING THE <b>AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE EXPLORATORY AREAS</b> INSTEAD OF COMARING TWO DIFFERENT JPG FILE SIZES.

Seriously you post won my award for most ignorant post of the week.

Mrscoombes · Sep 10, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Prophecies = indepth storyline, but rather monotonous and droning after a point (in my opinion)

Factions= go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go *completed game* but the storyline seems less drawn out than in prophecies (in my opinion)

S'all good.

*whupps spelt game wrong* =(

Horseman Of War · Sep 10, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrscoombes

Prophecies = indepth storyline, but rather monotonous and droning after a point (in my opinion)

Factions= go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go *completed gam* but the storyline seems less drawn out than in prophecies (in my opinion)

S'all good.

I agree. If anything at all, Factions is much more reasonable- and some people will still never be able to finish it (suck to be them!)

Mimi Miyagi · Sep 10, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

The problem with Factions was simple. There just isn't much of anything to do after you've finished the game.

In Chapter 1, you had the forge quests. You could go to SF. Or UW/FoW. Go running up Snake Dance. Tombs runs. Not to mention GvG.

What do you have with Factions? Alliance battles? Give me a break. And until people found the exploit to allow anyone into the elite missions (all two of of them) those were reserved for the few guilds stupid enough to have their members farm faction 24/7.

The ending missions for factions versus propehsies tells the tale. Prophesies end mission takes at least 30-40 minutes or longer. Factions? 28 seconds.

When you couple how fast you can finish Factions versus Prophesies, and lack of anything to do once you DO finish it, it's obvious where factions falls short.

Alfrond · Sep 10, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I believe there is more end game content in Factions.

First, both Factions and Prophecies have two large dungeon crawler type places. Prophecies has Sorrows Furnace and Ruined Tombs. Factions has Urgoz's Warren and the Deep. FOW and UW are available to both games so they count as "core" areas.

After those items, Factions has AB battles, challenge missions, and Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. There are also repeatable quests and just like in Prophecies, you can go explore or work on titles.

Now I realize that some of the features I mentioned in Factions are unpopular, but they do exist and you can't just ignore them just because you personally don't like them.

Pandora's box · Sep 10, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

The only way to prevent all the complaining is to offer a trial period of at least one week. And I don't mean trial events, I mean playing the real game. Players who really like it will buy it and the rest will leave. And with them most of the complaints. A company that really is convinced to sell a top product would have no problems with this strategy. More: it would actually force devellopers to make the game even better with each new chapter.

Alfrond · Sep 10, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

The only way to prevent all the complaining is to offer a trial period of at least one week. And I don't mean trial events, I mean playing the real game. Players who really like it will buy it and the rest will leave. And with them most of the complaints. A company that really is convinced to sell a top product would have no problems with this strategy. More: it would actually force devellopers to make the game even better with each new chapter.

Thats a good idea and probably one that Anet has considered, seeing as how the have done trial type things in the past.

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 10, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

Seriously you post won my award for most ignorant post of the week.

I'm afraid it's yours that takes the cake. You're replying to my original, 4-month-old post without considering anything that's been already said in the thread. I'd say that's the definition of ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

They didnt make that claim. Your little tirade about the PvP- well, the whole game was altered to reduce the 'pve grind' that people like you complained about on the original.

It IS a stand alone game- how is it not???

Already replied to both points. The assumption on Factions release was that Factions would have as much content as Prophecies, because it was released by the same company in the same game world with the same price tag. ANet didn't say that the game would have less content because of the 6 month release schedule because admitting something like that would be financial suicide the way releasing play numbers would be.

Factions is not a stand-alone game because the "learning" part of the game present in Prophecies is completely cut out due to the rushed advancement and lack of skill reward quests. Only an expansion building on an existing game can afford to do that, as there would already be players familiar with game mechanics coming over from the original game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

pre searing ends when you get your insignia and are allowed to leave the monastary. If you want to call it pre-searing (um.. different story holmes)

So you have your insignia. What do you still have to do to leave the area with low-level monsters who won't attack you even if you aggro them? Follow the Saosiang Trail to Seitung Harbor, where you will find better armor and level 10+ enemies. You may disagree with the precise point at which "Canthan pre-Searing" ends, but you have to admit it is much shorter than it is in Prophecies.

And if you dislike the term "Canthan pre-Searing," how else would you like to talk about Factions in Prophecies terms when comparing the two games?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

You sound like someone complaining that you cant get a 'droks run' in factions. It also sounds like you cant get past Naphui Quarter...

Funny... I seem to remember posting something right on this page...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Anyway, by this point I've taken all 4 of my "active duty" characters - Tyrian E/Mo, N/Me and R/W, and Canthan A/Rt - all the way through the Factions storyline. I've completed every quest and walked every zone with my main

I've done every part of Factions and have the titles to prove it. Look me up in game if you doubt me. My main (E/Mo) reached Droknar's Forge the hard way with AL30 armor I got in Ascalon City, and I paid for a Droknar's Forge run only for my N/Me, because I wanted to see what it was and how it was done. All of my 4 "active duty" characters have done Nahpui Quarter with Master's reward.

My main complaint about the Factions "leading quest" system is not that it can't be avoided by running, but that it's designed to stall the player in the same areas the player has already covered. This is most obvious with the "Befriending" quests and the city quests that seem to loop in on themselves or require repeating things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

You realize that you can participate in Alliance Battles with a PVP character, right? Please tell me you knew that, because the ABs have nothing to do with the pve.

And do you realize that PvP content is contingent only on other player input rather than designer input? PvP is guaranteed to be interesting due to changing player strategies. People will always find something that works extremely well (MM, touch ranger, EoE self-bomb) and use it with greater or lesser success, forcing everyone to adapt to new play styles and innovate on their own. But PvE content does not have this luxury of being dependent on player input, so it requires greater effort on the part of game designers to keep it interesting. Moving content from PvE to PvP is a cop-out in my book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

^this is all im seeing, sorry can you repeat it?

Yes I can. If you're going to take my quotes out of context, so will I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

For that matter, how can any of us speak about what the opinion of the community is unless we witness it? When someone speaks about personal disappointment with Factions, they are dismissed as "venting their anger." When someone speaks about collective disappointment with Factions, they are dismissed as "unable to represent the community."

How can I make an argument about a personal perception of the game experience without basing it on personal experience? Yes, I'm trying to extrapolate from it, but without personal experience of the game I have no basis for anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

thats a cute way to say it, but it makes no sense. Faster and Grind should not be in the same sentance, Boy Wonder.

Alright, let me spell it out then. Factions storyline is extremely straightforward and allows no room for deviation due to the closed gates and needing the right quest to advance through, which can produce the appearance of a grind, especially the second time through - a sequence of tasks required to accomplish something that the player does not necessarily wish to complete, but has to. The "faster" is a reference to the fact that Factions storyline is also streamlined; if you dedicate yourself to grinding away you can (as people have) complete it in a very short time, compared to hours-long missions in Prophecies. Where in Prophecies missions took a long time, in Factions it's the quests in between - quests you can't avoid and explicitly have to grind for, like the "Befriending" quests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

TRY COMPARING THE <b>AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE EXPLORATORY AREAS</b> INSTEAD OF COMARING TWO DIFFERENT JPG FILE SIZES.

By this point, my main character is a double Grandmaster Cartographer, and I stand by my initial assessment. You can receive a 0.1% increase to your "Exploration of Cantha" title progress bar by uncovering less "fog spots" (meaning the smallest possible part of the fogged area) than it takes to do the same in Tyria.

If that still doesn't convince you, go measure both maps in terms of how many screenshots of each side you need to take to cover it fully. The Factions overview map measures roughly 5.5 screens by 5.5 screens in 1024x768 resolution, while the Tyrian one is roughly 7.5 by 7.5 screens at the same resolution. Unless you specifically use different image compression methods, a map of Cantha will be smaller in bitsize to a map of Tyria.

And in terms of explorable areas, how many of them are rehashing content already available as missions?

In closing, if you're going to reply to the original post of any old thread, please take the time to see if the points raised in it have already been addressed. The only reason I revived this thread was because I had something new to add, something that didn't warrant starting a new one. Please respond in kind.

Opeth11 · Sep 11, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

QFT...i don't think I can say it better myself...in prophecies, it seemed like there was never a "main" storyline, but instead a lot of little ones put together, and you only end up seeing the end of one.....WHAT HAPPENED TO ASCALON?!

The Searing, maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Not IMO. Factions is 10 times better than prophecies, fun-wise for me. There just seems to be so much more to do in factions!

It may seem like there's more to do in Factions, but when it comes to overall content, Prophecies overwhelms the player with tasks (although they weren't mandatory) when compared to Factions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Which is one of the reasons why factions supposedly sucked occording to the op....grind...even though there seems to be a lot less in factions...

Prophecies never required you to grind for anything. Only in one example were you forced to grind for money (Max AL armor), which could be replaced by collectors, if the player wishes to do so. Factions forced a player to go through tasks that they did not want to do, such as annoying Primary quests and the dreaded Befriending the xxx quests. Less grind? May seem like it to you, but when you get down to it, no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfrond

I feel that I got my money worth and then some.

Really? $50 dollars for a relatively short game? Sure, it could be entertaining for you, but I'm sure that you don't truely feel that it was worth the money you paid, compared to Prophecies =/ But then again, that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfrond

First, both Factions and Prophecies have two large dungeon crawler type places. Prophecies has Sorrows Furnace and Ruined Tombs. Factions has Urgoz's Warren and the Deep.

Now, how many people can access those two areas without a ferry (which aren't around 100% the time, and even if they are there, they may charge)?

Shyft the Pyro · Sep 11, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opeth11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfrond

First, both Factions and Prophecies have two large dungeon crawler type places. Prophecies has Sorrows Furnace and Ruined Tombs. Factions has Urgoz's Warren and the Deep.

Now, how many people can access those two areas without a ferry (which aren't around 100% the time, and even if they are there, they may charge)?

Don't forget that it was the game developers' original intent to keep those areas locked and accessible only to the alliance that held the capital of each faction, possession of which was in theory tied to the PvE grind of repeatable quests or the PvP grind of "persistant warfare" Alliance battles. If it weren't for The Crusaders starting the ferry trend back when they held Cavalon, it would probably be that way today.

When Prophecies was released, neither Sorrow's Furnace nor PvE Tombs existed. Both of these were "add-ons" introduced into the game to keep it fresh out of ANet's good will. ANet has stated multiple times even before Factions release that there would be no "add-ons" for it. If you're considering the add-ons part of chapter content, isn't it obvious you're not getting as much with Factions as you did with Prophecies?

xRustyx · Sep 11, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

The root of all evil stems from the necessary existance of evil to define good.